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Author Topic: Oops... Sorry about the oil rig thing  (Read 2050 times)
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Mik
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« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2010, 07:36:16 PM »

The ways cheap oil is brought about are several. There are direct subsidies and tax breaks to the oil industry, the government funds programs that primarily benefit the oil industry, ranging from road infrastructure, to automobile subsidies, to tourism promotion, and there are hidden environmental costs, from air and water pollution from cars, to the impacts from extraction and production of fuels, to the production of petroleum-based pesticides and fertilizers. The Union of Concerned Scientists did a brief report in 1995 about subsidized oil here:

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/vehicle_impacts/cars_pickups_and_suvs/subsidizing-big-oil.html

There is another perspective on oil subsidies here:

http://cleantech.com/news/node/554

and here:

http://blogs.reuters.com/gregg-easterbrook/2010/05/05/we-cry-over-spilled-oil-yet-subsidize-the-production-of-ultra-polluting-cars/

Everything about the US economy is predicated upon the presence of cheap energy, oil being one of the primary energy sources. How can we identify when cheap oil is present? Charles Hugh Smith has some interesting observations about cheap oil here:

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Cheap-Oil-The-Engine-of-America.html

He notes:

- When I see expansive, well-manicured lawns, I see cheap oil.
- When I see busy airports and taxiing aircraft, I see cheap oil.
- When I see news about the latest "surge" in Afghanistan, I see cheap oil.
- When I see goods from China on sale for less than a dollar, I see cheap oil.
- When I see branded water in plastic bottles, I see cheap oil.
- When I see inexpensive meat in supermarket coolers, I see cheap oil.
- When I walk through aisles of frozen food, I see cheap oil.
- When I see vast swaths of America dotted with rural mini-estates, I see cheap oil.
- When I see the "free" Internet, I see cheap oil.
- When I see retirees walking their dogs, I see cheap oil. (Ultimately, all pensions are based on cheap oil.)
- When I see bakeries which sell only dog treats, I see cheap oil.
- When I see jammed freeways, I see cheap oil.
- When I feel air conditioning in desert cities, I see cheap oil.
- When I see new fiberglas boats with large inboard engines, I see cheap oil.
- When I see boxes of "free clothing" set on the curb, I see cheap oil.
- When I read about vast bureaucracies dedicated to regulating complex industries, I see cheap oil.
- When I see a new iPad, I see cheap oil.
- When I meet an enthusaistic young person who is jetting to a distant land to work for an NGO (non-governmental organization), I see cheap oil.
- When I see electric bicycles, I see cheap oil.
- When I see well-dressed people filing into a corporate meeting, I see cheap oil.
- When I see imported furniture, I see cheap oil (and clear-cut native forests).
- When I see adverts for cosmetic surgery, I see cheap oil.
- When I see a stadium full of sports fans, I see cheap oil.



Also of note:

2010 Offshore Industry Safety Awards Postponed
http://www.mms.gov/ooc/press/2010/press0428.htm

« Last Edit: June 20, 2010, 01:07:03 PM by Mik » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 10:30:44 PM »

It appears environmental regulations are not the reason for the Deepwater Horizon location. It is that there is a waiver of royalties for oil from wells in deep waters that started in 1995 and was expanded in 2005, when $1.5 billion in direct payments to drill in deep water was included. Hmm...
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 08:05:39 AM »

Thanks Mick.  An informative post.
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2010, 06:54:33 PM »

Jim Quinn (not the Pittsburgh radio host) has some observations on lessons learned from the BP spill posted over at the Nolan Chart. Some excerpts are below and you can read it all here:

http://www.nolanchart.com/article7803.html


# Mega corporations with $300 billion in revenue formed by acquiring Amoco and ARCO are too unwieldy to manage by anyone. The bigger an organization gets, the more dysfunctional it becomes.

# When you allow MBAs and their cost benefit analysis method of managing huge corporations to win out, then safety violations and fines are seen as only a cost of doing business. Proper risk management is discarded as old school.

# If the executives of BP and other mega-corporations were personally liable for the damage done by their corporations, would they sacrifice safety for profits? NO. This is the same concept as the Wall Street investment banks. When they were partnerships, partners shared equally in profits and losses. When someone works for a corporation they are shielded from their excessive risk taking. The shareholders and the citizens of the US get screwed.

# The excessive pay packages of corporate executives, approved by the Board of Directors, allow executives to gamble on even greater profit making ventures. The CEOs are so disgustingly rich that they have no downside to taking excessive risks for more profits. Tony Hayward made $4.6 million last year. If he is now fired in disgrace, BP will pay him $2 million to just hit the road. No downside for an incompetent risk taking leader.

# The response from Obama and Congress to this disaster will be more regulations, as if we didn't already have regulations. We had the regulations. They were not enforced by the regulator. The regulator was bribed by the oil industry. Incompetent, easily manipulated bureaucrats, were bought off by BP. This is exactly what happened with Wall Street and the SEC. The regulated buy off the regulator and the American people are screwed.
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2010, 04:46:18 PM »

Not to turn the focus too far away from BP’s liability, but Quinn’s list has a corollary list.  This list contributes to the problems in the original list.

# Governments with $3 trillion in spending are too unwieldy to manage. The bigger an organization gets, the more dysfunctional it becomes. 

# When you allow politicians their “dollars for votes” method of running government, then counterproductive programs are seen as necessary for getting re-elected. Constitutional limits are discarded as old school.

# If politicians and bureaucrats were personally liable for the damage done by their actions taken not expressly defined by the Constitution, would we be in the mess we are today? Probably not.  (Maybe a different, smaller mess.) Sovereign immunity requires sovereign responsibility, but in lieu of that it requires a limited sovereign scope of powers.

# No downside for an incompetent risk taking leader. (This should probably be moved to the top of the list!)

# The response from administrations and Congresses to their contributions to any disaster will be more centralized power, fewer individual rights and more regulations on everyone and everything else.
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Mik
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2010, 09:55:30 PM »

I like the corollary list, let's look at it a little further.

# Governments with $3 trillion in spending are too unwieldy to manage. The bigger an organization gets, the more dysfunctional it becomes.

I absolutely agree with the concept. The only government I know of that spends that much money in a year is the federal government of the United States. The same is true of private sector corporate bureaucracies. In both cases there are mechanisms that should allow those problems to be remedied. In the private sector there are free markets and in the public sector there are free elections.

The problem is that when you have a system that enforces privilege over individual rights, an oligarchy gets established. Those at the top of the most privileged corporations and those at the top of government become indistinguishable. This can be seen quite clearly in the United States with a top executive at BP becoming a high official in MMS the year before the accident, and the revolving door between executives of Goldman Sachs and the officials in the Treasury Department etc. etc.

The result is that both free markets and free elections are distorted to the point of being ineffective. The LP should be pushing for both free market and free elections.

# When you allow politicians their “dollars for votes” method of running government, then counterproductive programs are seen as necessary for getting re-elected. Constitutional limits are discarded as old school.


This is true for both votes for being elected to office and votes cast for specific pieces of legislation. The more you keep decision-making local, the less likely this will be a significant problem. People know when favoritism is being shown in their community.  This is a good argument for decentralized government and against bills like HB 2431, which would eliminate all local government in Pennsylvania except for counties.

# If politicians and bureaucrats were personally liable for the damage done by their actions taken not expressly defined by the Constitution, would we be in the mess we are today? Probably not.  (Maybe a different, smaller mess.) Sovereign immunity requires sovereign responsibility, but in lieu of that it requires a limited sovereign scope of powers.

Again I fully agree. For the public-sector government side that limitation should be in the constitution, and for the private-sector corporate side, that limitation should be in the corporate charter, which should also require re-evaluation and renewal periodically.

The US federal constitution is not very clearly defined, nor is it very limiting. I used to think Alexander Hamilton could not have imagined what his vision would become once corporations became considered persons, essentially immortal beings, that can significantly influence government. I now think he may have had a good idea what he was creating.

# No downside for an incompetent risk taking leader. (This should probably be moved to the top of the list!)


As we mentioned, there should be down sides, but the mechanisms to bring about those down sides have been jammed.

# The response from administrations and Congresses to their contributions to any disaster will be more centralized power, fewer individual rights and more regulations on everyone and everything else.

And the response from corporate executives will likely be the same, except the more centralized control will lead to more privilege and less competition through more regulations, and to more governmental subsidies and incentives to develop this resource, which is in the 'national interest'. The effect of that renewed relationship will be the further erosion of individual rights, to be sure.

This is why I think it is important to explore the nature of rights, the nature of property, and the relationship of corporate entities to government. Our problems are not simply government run amok. Nor are our problems simply corporations run amok, as many Greens believe. This is also why I think it is important to look at the Green Party, and others, to see if there are possibly ways we could cooperate to really address the issues we face as citizens and residents of the United States and Pennsylvania.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 08:11:08 AM by Mik » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2010, 06:27:11 AM »

Quite apart from all that has been said (most of which I agree with) there are some other safety considerations to think about.

There are several international requlations that should have been followed and were not.  The most egregious of these was ignoring the requirements of ISO14001/OHSAS 18001 (Environmental, Heath and Safety).  Having worked in this area (also ISO 9001) I feel tha I know more than a little bit about it.  Had the regulations been followed could the oil disaster have been avoided?  Nobody can say for sure but it most likely would have never happened.
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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2010, 08:09:35 AM »

Are you saying that government regulations are good?Huh  Wink
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« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2010, 11:57:05 AM »

Not really.  In this case, however, compliance is voluntary.  The U.S. Government has no actual requirement that anybody comply with the ISO standards.  Europe, however, is a different story.  Anybody wanting to do business with ANY E.U. country must be a certified ISO compliant company.  Since I'm almost completely sure that BP does business in Europe they must have the certification there.  They just didn't bother to bring that compliance with them when they started doing business in the United States territorial waters.  That failure brought consequences and rightfully so.
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2010, 02:01:39 PM »

Apparently had Halliburton's advice not been followed the accident may not have take place, either.
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« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2011, 02:12:37 PM »

Does anyone believe this Marcellus Shale situation is going to be very disastrous to our natural resources?  I have not had to time to look into all this, but in the last two weeks I was talking to three groups of people and they are up in arms about "what is going on"   What is going on?   Claims of water out of a faucet catching on fire and massive cutting down of land for the rigs and trucks.   I told a girl i was going up north to go camping and she said, is there any land left up there.

I know there is concern out there, but there is series fear out there.  Everyone I spoke to is not a political junkie like me/us.

What is your thought?   I have read that fracking has been used for many years with no issues.

   
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« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2011, 03:04:19 PM »

I found some great videos on youtube last year put out by an energy lobby that showed how little the impact this drilling would have.  High production value.  Almost makes it look like "green energy".
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Mik
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« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2011, 07:41:24 PM »

I have read that fracking has been used for many years with no issues.

Not that there have been no issues, there have always been environmental and other impacts from natural gas extraction. The new twist is the horizontal drilling, which can go out as far as 10,000 feet from the well pad. Where once 10,000 gallons of fracking fluid may have been used at a site, now it is 10,000,000 gallons. It is orders of magnitude larger in the scale of the operations.

Yes, there are people who can light the water from their faucets on fire, which can happen with the conventional drilling as well. The problems can be much more significant when things go wrong with the larger operations, though. Look at what happened in Dimock with impacts to drinking water where the DEP proposed to spend over $10 million to provide drinking water to residents, or where the retention ponds for the fracking fluid and the drilling derrick caught on fire in western PA.
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