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Author Topic: What type of libertarianism is this?  (Read 450 times)
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Market Liberal
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« on: October 11, 2008, 01:15:54 am »

I realize I'm a noob here, though I'm far from a noob on ideology.  I plan on getting seriously involved in the LP.  However, I just visited Marakay Rogers website (I.E. Libertarian Attorney General candidate) and here's the candidates self-proclaimed belief structure:

Quote
MY AGENDA:
1) I oppose the death penalty.
2) I oppose the state property tax and support a graduated income tax.
3) I support civil rights for ALL Pennsylvanians.
4) I support Pennsylvania's local educators and the right to educate students as local governments see fit, not to teach to federal standardized tests.
4) I support universal health care for Pennsylvania.
5) I support a Pennsylvania living wage.

Here's the site.  2006 gubernatorial campaign.  http://www.geocities.com/mjr91/RogersforAG.html .

Just trying to figure out what type of libertarianism that is and why a party holding views in nearly perfect opposition (in most of the cases) would endorse a candidate holding them?

Edit: nevermind.  I see now that it's some sort of a Green-Libertarian-Nader alliance candidate situation.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 01:22:44 am by Market Liberal » Logged

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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2008, 08:42:50 am »

I was told in a separate thread that she has recanted the unlibertarian aspects of that, though I can't find any evidence of it.
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bdively
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 09:01:57 am »

Well, I will start by saying that i was taken (way) back by this candidate (a former green) and I couldn't make the board meeting where she was to give a presentation, then a question and answer, before the board voted on her as our AG Candidate.    

I follow all 3rd parties rather close and this might be a first.  (Green to LP, at this level)  So i had a friend video tape the interview.  She did well and won the nomination by the board.  Not a purist LP, but way up there on the Nolan Chart.  I can dig up for the video if you would like to see it.    

Two leaders in the LPPA know Ms. Rogers well, and stated that for years told her to come to the party she really belongs in, The LP.  She finally left the Greens at a high level in their National Party and came onboard with us.    

Now meeting her several times, i feel she is libertarian, just from the socialist left.    

Try not to judge the book by it's cover.  Email her, meet her, challenger her couple of socialist beliefs, and then make up your mind.  She might someday see her positions change on a couple of things you stated.   I believe in more control over our boarder, bringing the military home and standing guard.  I believe that abortion rights are up to the individual states to decide.  I am not sure what i as a Libertarian would have voted for getting into WWII.  I likely would have gone after just Japan, but would not have disrupted their trade in the first place.  Does that make me not a libertarian?      

The same can be said regarding Bob Barr and his pass voting record.  But i believe he is a changed man.   But he also said that the US needs to get out of the war on drugs issue and bring to the state level.  (he does not say end the war on drugs)  

Try to come to a LP county meeting or a state board meeting.  This is great discussion and always comes up.  

I agree #4 and #5 are very socialist, and need to be questioned more.

What say you?
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johngalinac
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 09:11:21 am »

When I spoke to her I was more concerned about her beliefs on issues relevant to the position she was running for . I think we all agreed at that time that there were some issues in the overall platform that we disagreed on but it wasn't relevant to the position she was running for. I think Marakay has a forum account though and can probably defend herself better than I can. I do have the video of the Q & A session when she was approved. I can upload it somewhere next week for viewing. I don't have it in front of me and I don't want to redownload it from the tape.
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Ron Goodman
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 09:29:49 am »

I think that may be an old website from when she was running as a Green Party candidate.  I just checked her current website www.rogersforattorneygeneral.org and I didn't see those same positions.

I agree with John Galinac's view she could help promote several issues like Ballot Access and efforts to fend off the Real ID Act in the position of Attorney General.  Marakay is running a very active campaign and at least her marketing materials reference the Libertarian Party which is more than some of our other candidates have done.

Again, check the new site and I think you will be relieved that bullet points #4 and #5 are not present.
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Market Liberal
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2008, 11:13:43 am »

sounds good guys, thanks for the info.  I have one more question (non-candidate related):

I've read-up on platform, candidates, history, and even printed out the .pdf's provided for organizing.   Looks promising, imo.  Particularly after the 2006 platform modifications, the LP looks to be set up for mainstream growth and I'd like to join.  I would be officially leaving the GOP, as I do not feel they are even offering me lip-service on limited government and low spending anymore.  For me to continue to believe I can change the GOP is a fools dream and I feel it is my duty to officially leave them. 

My question is regarding the non-force pledge for membership. 

Is that a pledge of pacifism, or more a pledge of non-intervention and non-coercion?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 11:37:42 am by Market Liberal » Logged

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bdively
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2008, 12:43:53 pm »

<<<< My question is regarding the non-force pledge for membership.   Is that a pledge of pacifism, or more a pledge of non-intervention and non-coercion? >>>>>

Get a six pack of your favorite beverage and happy reading... 

The NIF is one hot topic.  If you want to post (reply) something on this subject, please use that thread if you could (below, cut and paste).  Let me (us) know if there are any specifics that are not covered.   

http://www.lppa.org/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,60/topic,33343.0/

P.S.  Do you know where Blue Knob Auto is? 
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bdively
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2008, 12:52:39 pm »

I think that may be an old website from when she was running as a Green Party candidate.  I just checked her current website www.rogersforattorneygeneral.org and I didn't see those same positions.

I agree with John Galinac's view she could help promote several issues like Ballot Access and efforts to fend off the Real ID Act in the position of Attorney General.  Marakay is running a very active campaign and at least her marketing materials reference the Libertarian Party which is more than some of our other candidates have done.

Again, check the new site and I think you will be relieved that bullet points #4 and #5 are not present.

Thanks RG, I didn't think to look there.  I enjoy working with Marakay and am glad she left the dark side to the liberty side.  I see the mess we are in as a great opportunity for getting us back on track. 

I feel Michael Savage will be a player in future races in politics.  He has a good size of motivated followers and many of his positions (certainly not all) are libertarian leaning.   He can raise a lot of money (fast), and thus attention too.     

http://www.rogersforattorneygeneral.org/ 
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Market Liberal
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2008, 01:33:02 pm »

P.S.  Do you know where Blue Knob Auto is? 

Sure.  About a 10 minute drive from me.  If that.

I just read the thread on the pledge. haha.  Seems there are many with the same types of questions about it.  Anyway, it sufficiently answered my questions.  I'm in.

Quote
I feel Michael Savage will be a player in future races in politics.  He has a good size of motivated followers and many of his positions (certainly not all) are libertarian leaning.   He can raise a lot of money (fast), and thus attention too.
Very possible.  I can't imagine him supporting libertarians though.  He gets extremely hung up on the "moral decay" of society and things of that nature.  He's a tough guy to get a read on... and to relate it to the party-pledge, he would absolutely laugh at it. 

I think he would be much more in-line with the CP than libertarians.  But who knows?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 01:42:41 pm by Market Liberal » Logged

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bdively
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008, 02:03:48 pm »

<<< Sure.  About a 10 minute drive from me.  If that.  >>>

Bought a car there once. 

<<< I think he would be much more in-line with the CP than libertarians.  But who knows?  >>>

Agree, I am implying that many more people will know the hurdles 3rd parties must jump through just to get on the flipping ballot in many states, like PA.  He would expose this to millions. 

Signing off. 
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mjr91
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008, 03:49:02 pm »

I'd like to thank everyone who realized that the governor site is old.  Very old.  Back when I was a Green who had to keep arguing with all the other Greens that we weren't supposed to be an affiliate of the Socialist Party.  Nonetheless, I had to represent all the planks of the party no matter how -- er -- "unfortunate" they were.

The more I learned, once I became a national delegate in the GP, about how the party operated on the inside and what the real insiders were thinking, the more I realized I didn't and couldn't fit in with their ideology, nor did I want to.  I won't get into that here, but I could write about it for ages. 

Put me on the Nolan chart and I'm a "left libertarian" but still solidly in the libertarian field.  That was something I realized even back when I was a registered Green.  My primary reason for not registering as Libertarian sooner (there is a small group of Greens and Libertarians, both, who listened to me wrestle with the idea of a switch for about 2 years) was that I was seduced by popular thinking about Libertarians ("how can they be for "x" and "y" at the same time?  Isn't that contradictory?") rather than understanding just how consistent Libertarian thought was and why it made perfect sense.  Once everything fell into place I had no further concerns.

I was trained as a historian but in English history, not American.  The more I study colonial and revolutionary American history, the more I appreciate Libertarian philosophy and the more pleased I am to have changed my registration.
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tweber78
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008, 05:01:15 pm »

The pledge is a "non first strike agreement."  If you can wrap your head around the idea that you will not strike without provocation- sign the pledge.  It should be noted that you get to define what provocation is.  There is no litmus test for provocation, one must adhere to in order to join the party.

  • Someone breaks into your house- that's provocation.
  • makes a threatening gesture toward you, your wife, your children- that's provocation.
  • government over taxes you- that's provocation.
  • Some government spend your hard earned money to bail out financial markets that were forced to collapse by government meddling- that's provocation.

You get the picture...

Welcome to the site/ party
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 05:04:22 pm by tweber78 » Logged
georgedonnelly
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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008, 07:46:36 pm »

Thank you for the clarification. Smiley
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bdively
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« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 10:33:37 pm »

Great job tonight Marakay.  A lot of favorable callers too.   Keep it up.
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Market Liberal
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 12:18:26 am »

I watched and thought you did very nicely as well.  Although some of those callers were pretty out-there with asking you about their personal cases lol.  It was sort of entertaining, but sort of annoying.  You'll have that on PCN though.
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"Capitalism without losses is like religion without hell" -E.H. Crane (Cato institute)
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