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mark.d.crowley
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2008, 10:00:30 am » |
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Let's get this straight. We should remove Bob Barr from the top of the LP ticket for skipping a meeting? What if he attended, but forgot to bring the donuts? Should he be pushed down to the VP slot?
This is ridiculous.
All this does is serve the interests of the establishment Republican Party. Remember them? They're the group Ron Paul is so rightly focused on challenging in the first place.
This reminds me of drug prohibition. That's where extreme moralists and organized crime agree to keep it illegal, but for very different reasons. Here we have libertarian purists and anti-freedom groups wanting the same thing -- Bob Barr off the ballot. Again for very different reasons.
Ask yourself a question. When Ron Paul enters the voting booth, who do you think he'll vote for: McCain, Obama, McKinney, Baldwin, Nader, NOTA -- or Barr?
Mark
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JohnKOTR
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 10:32:03 am » |
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Removing Barr, at this point, would make us look extremely bad and disorganized. As far as I am concerned, that is not an option.
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2008, 12:04:34 pm » |
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It would be strategically suicidal to remove Barr, or harm him in a public way in any way.
That said, saying he just missed a meeting is a disingenuous understatement. He seriously set back the LP's hopes of growing the party by taking on Ron Paul's supporters.
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mark.d.crowley
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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 04:37:33 pm » |
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Disingenuous? I wonder how many Ron Paul contributors, activists and supporters with libertarian leanings might have thought that word when they saw Ron Paul standing next to Cynthia McKinney at his event.
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2008, 08:58:26 am » |
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if McKinney accepts the 4 points, what's wrong with appearing with her to promote them? Building a majority for freedom and non-aggression is what we libertarians are doing, isn't it?
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JohnKOTR
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2008, 10:20:43 am » |
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Sigh, I am always seriously disappointed by something, every election cycle.
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bdively
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2008, 01:33:57 pm » |
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I'm more than a little saddened to see so much infighting with the third parties.
Aways growing pains with a new movement. The more we threaten the two majors, the more important it will be to stick together as they will try to tear us appart. |
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What say you?
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Jim Gordon
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2008, 08:09:44 pm » |
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Every last damn one of ya should read "Radicals for Capitalism: A Freewheeling History of the Modern American Libertarian Movement" by Brian Doherty. You can buy used hardback copies for as low as $3.50 on Amazon. You will see that what we are witnessing today in our little party is nothing new! You have the "trads" and the "rads" at each other throughout our history! You have the split between the Randians and the Rothbardians and the Ed Clark and Koch haters! Reason vs. Rockwell! Nothing new here folks! Now, let's get out collective asses together, support our candidate and move the this liberty idea forward!
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Mik
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« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2008, 10:53:37 pm » |
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Far from being a disingenuous understatement, I think saying all this flak over Bob Barr skipping a meeting was an ingenuous statement. If anyone is dispersing Ron Paul supporters, it's Ron Paul. Is Ron Paul interested in promoting Liberty or building alternatives to the two-party system? If it is interested in the latter, it may be better if he weren't a part of the two party system, although he is barely a part of it. If he is interested in the former, it may not be a good idea to promote someone like McKinney. He could have done both by taking Bob Barr's offer, it seems.
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djahn
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 08:30:40 am » |
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Mik, After reading your comments, I have to wonder if you watched the press conference at all. You should set aside some time to watch these videos of the conference. Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4SYfaNWvAU Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8Q3H5WZm4Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q-JVevYyMQPart 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPrSgBQFBFMPart 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCVtTiQ9KsAPart 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2opCJYnh0Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvvpDMO7hA0Part 8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3nLZcAdmJMPart 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7p_OPr3nswThe message I heard was that all of these people earned the right to be included in the presidential debates since they qualified to be on enough state ballots to possibly win the election. Ron Paul couldn't make that point by only inviting those whose views are consitent with his. So, his invitation was extended to every candidate that met the qualifications he described for inclusion in the Presidential debates. The only fly in the ointment was that Bob Barr, one of the candidates Ron Paul would have preferred to be on the stage, decided there was nothing to be gained by appearing there. To the contrary, Russ Verney and Bob Barr failed to realize there was a lot to be lost. So, Verney and Barr squandered yet another opportunity to earn votes from Ron Paul's supporters. Like it or not, Ron Paul is the most succesful libertarian in the country. He has united libertarians, many of whom don't even realize they are libertarians. He has earned more votes than any libertarian, he has raised more money than any other libertarian ( $6 million in a single day), and he has more active supporters than any other libertarian. When we insult and disagree with Ron Paul, we risk insulting and disagreeing with our portential supporters. Perhaps, that is why Barr hasn't managed to raise a million dollars yet. At this point I'm having trouble justifying to others why I'm voting for Bob Barr, let alone convincing them to cast their votes for him. I have trouble seeing this latest act as ingenious. David Jahn |
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David Jahn
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mark.d.crowley
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2008, 01:29:24 pm » |
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Yes, Ron Paul raised more money than all other libertarians. Where is it? What specific political cause is it promoting? Was it that alternate convention?
Don't get me wrong, Ron Paul has been an incredible plus to the libertarian movement. That movement, however, has many branches -- educational, policy, legal, media, entertainment, political to arbitrarily name a few. It has some noteworthy elements too -- CATO, IJ, Stossel, Penn & Teller and, of course, Ron Paul. Its biggest political element probably is Ron Paul.
But isn't Ron Paul more of an educator than a politician? It's like that press conference was a university lecture where Dr. Paul the professor says, "Your next term paper, due on November 4th, is to pick one of these choices and explain why." That's a political educator, but not a true political leader. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but maybe he isn't the ideal person for the political job. If so, then we probably shouldn't assume he is.
Mark
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2008, 01:32:02 pm » |
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Beggars can't be choosers. Ron Paul is the only libertarian in Congress. He may not be ideal, but he is the only credible applicant for the political job atm. I don't expect we'll grow the applicant pool but snubbing him, either.
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klapton
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 02:43:39 pm » |
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RP's "non-politician" aura is part of his charm. It's one thing about Barr that causes some folks some distrust in their guts. The man is DEFINITELY a politician.
I keep looking around for a "leader" though... I see lots of educators, philosophers, preachers, lawyers, politicians... I wonder where and when we will finally find a LEADER with the kind of charisma and personality that is so powerful and universal that they cannot be ignored? We need this leader, badly.
I like both Barr and Paul. I would vote for either one of them, given the opportunity. But if we could only find someone with unbending libertarian principles, the ability to communicate them directly and effectively, with the charisma to MAKE people listen... We just might have a chance of snapping the Sheeple from their statist-dependent stupor and demand their liberty back.
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Ron Goodman
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2008, 09:22:14 pm » |
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I thought the last 2 press releases from Bob Barr were pretty well written and did a good job of portraying the libertarian philosophy in a common sense approach.
The majority of the public is still unware that there is another choice. Our job over the next 50+ days is to raise as much awareness as possible.
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