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Author Topic: One man up there (State Senate) on our side.  (Read 607 times)
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bdively
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« on: July 26, 2008, 04:06:44 pm »

http://www.senatorfolmer.com/connect.htm  - let Sen. know we thank him for this


http://www.senatorf olmer.com/ press-2008/ 072408.htm

For Immediate Release
July 24, 2008
Contact: Joe Sterns

Folmer Introduces Voters' Choice Act

Legislation removes unfair election barriers to non-major party
candidates

HARRISBURG Senator Mike Folmer (R-Lebanon) today introduced the
Voters' Choice Act (VCA), which removes the Commonwealth' s unfair
hurdles that obstruct ballot access for independent and minor party
candidates for public office.

"No state makes it tougher to get on the ballot than Pennsylvania, as
independent and minor party candidates face significantly more
difficult barriers than Republicans and Democrats," Folmer said. "My
bill would enhance our democratic process by leveling the playing
field."

Currently, Pennsylvania law uses a complex formula to produce an
extraordinarily high number of petition signatures that non-major
party candidates must obtain in order to appear on the ballot in a
general election. In 2006, that formula resulted in minor party and
independent candidates having to gather nearly 68,000 petition
signatures to run in the General Election for Governor or U.S.
Senator. Major party candidates, meanwhile, were required to gather
only 2,000 signatures during the primary election to run for those
same offices.

Folmer's legislation would make the signature requirements for
independent candidates to appear on the general election ballot the
same as which major party candidates have for primary elections.
Because minor parties do not participate in primary elections, the
Voter Choice Act would require them to nominate candidates for a
general election according to their own rules, and at their own
expense.

Finally, the VCA would eliminate another complicated formula under
current law that makes it difficult for a political body to qualify as
minor party. Under Folmer's bill, any political body which claims at
least 0.05 percent of the total number of registered voters in the
Commonwealth would qualify as a minor party.
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Mik
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2008, 11:32:06 pm »

Folmer hasn't introduced anything yet as the senate does not reconvene until September 16th. I hear he has been getting a lot of pressure to not introduce the bill and I suspect the powers that be will get to him by the time September rolls around.

The problem is the VCA does nothing for the established powers, so it is very unlikely that it will gain much support even if introduced. While a step in the right direction, the VCA still will not give us free and equal elections.

One small change that could address both of these issues would be to amend the VCA to eliminate the requirement that political parties with more than 15% of the registered voters use the primary election system to nominate candidates. This would give the option for the major parties to not have to gather signatures and nominate candidates at their own expense just as the other political parties would.

If a party with more than 15% of the registered voters wants to use public funds in a primary election, then the signature requirement would remain. Also, if independent candidates wanted to be on the November ballot, they would have to collect the same number of signatures as a candidate for the primary except it could be from any registered voter. All candidates would have to be confirmed for the November ballot at the same time, say May 15th.

This would eliminate, or at least provide the option to eliminate, one of the concerns of the major parties, that of signatures and challenges. It would also address the late entry of candidates in August, which is of concern to the major parties.

This would make the VCA more in line with free and equal elections and would also make it much more likely to gain support should it be introduced.

Mik
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djahn
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 08:43:15 am »

The problem is the VCA does nothing for the established powers, so it is very unlikely that it will gain much support even if introduced. While a step in the right direction, the VCA still will not give us free and equal elections.

I disagree.  It does do one thing for them, it stops forcing us to run candidates against theirs in statewide elections every other year just to maintain minor party status.  The minor parties could sit out statewide elections if we weren't forced to as we are under the current laws.

Quote
One small change that could address both of these issues would be to amend the VCA to eliminate the requirement that political parties with more than 15% of the registered voters use the primary election system to nominate candidates. This would give the option for the major parties to not have to gather signatures and nominate candidates at their own expense just as the other political parties would.

If a party with more than 15% of the registered voters wants to use public funds in a primary election, then the signature requirement would remain. Also, if independent candidates wanted to be on the November ballot, they would have to collect the same number of signatures as a candidate for the primary except it could be from any registered voter. All candidates would have to be confirmed for the November ballot at the same time, say May 15th.

This would eliminate, or at least provide the option to eliminate, one of the concerns of the major parties, that of signatures and challenges. It would also address the late entry of candidates in August, which is of concern to the major parties.

This would make the VCA more in line with free and equal elections and would also make it much more likely to gain support should it be introduced.

Mik

There are a number of possible compromise's that can be proposed, but the first step is finding a receptive audience.  We need the legislature to recognize and admit the current system is not free and equal.  We need them to recognize and admit it is abusive.  We need them to recognize and admit they have used the laws they have crafted to abuse our candidates.  We need them to recognize and admit that every citizen has a right to run for office.  And, we need them to recognize and admit they have a duty to change it. 

Only then can we begin to have a serious dialog about what changes are necessary to assure free and equal elections, and only then can we begin serious discussions about possible compromise's.

The VCA as it is written is free and equal.  It is in place in Delaware and some variation in place in other states.  If it works for them, there is no reason it won't work here.  Any legislator that argues against the VCA exposes themselves as being opposed to free and equal elections.

We need to force them to debate the issue and let them bring the arguments to us.  Nothing will happen until they have no other choice but to enter into the debate.  Introducing the VCA is a good first step, but it is up to the public after that to force these reps to act on it.

David Jahn
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David Jahn
Mik
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008, 12:54:38 am »

Dave,

In the eyes of many legislators, much of the general public, and certainly in the eyes of most Party hacks, the current system is seen as more or less free and equal. They believe there is a system in place that allows people to run for office who want to, while at the same time eliminating the chaos that would result from voters having to choose from five or six candidates for every elected office.

While most people see our point when we make it, I don't think it will ever rank as a sufficient concern among PA voters to force legislators into a debate on the issue. If we want to make progress we will have to present something that will hold the interest of the major parties. So if you want the receptive audience, put some things they like in the draft legislation.

Not having to run statewide candidates every other year against them may be something, but if they really wanted to get rid of that they could increase the signature requirement. Look what happened in 2006. If the VCA is adopted, do the major parties expect to not have to run against other statewide candidates in the future? Of course not!!!

What is the point of gaining ballot access if then we would decide to not run candidates? I strongly doubt there would be such libertarian candidates for statewide office that we wouldn't need to field our own. The major parties don't like the burden of signatures, even at the lower numbers, and they don't like the late entry of other candidates. What is equal about having different filing deadlines for nominees?

The VCA may be free and equal as far as minor parties go, but it does not comprehensively address PA election law. The goal is free and equal elections, or at least as close an approximation as can be made in the real world. Until we get public funding out of the nomination process, or at least tie it to some additional burden, we won't get to that goal.

I'm afraid the Party powers are going to get to Sen. Folmer before he introduces the VCA. PBAC should consider some possible alterations to the VCA should it become necessary to negotiate an introduction of a bill.

Mik Robertson
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klapton
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008, 07:24:41 am »

Perhaps there should be no public funding at all, ONE set of rules for getting on the ballot, and ONE deadline to do so.
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 07:26:34 am »

Mik,

We can dream up a million ways to compromise and alter the VCA, but there is no point in doing so.  There are a number of reps who have indicated they would co-sponsor or introduce the VCA as is.  

We met with the government committee and spoke with many of our reps.  It seems to me that many of them are small minded people of limited intelligence.  If we present them with a smorgasbord, they will never be able to decide what they want to eat.  We have narrowed the VCA down to a couple simple points.  We presented them with a ballot access model that is already functioning in other states.

What we need now is a serious dialog that provides the feedback we need to either propose alternative legislation or develop a strategy to sell it to them.

I hate hearing that there is nothing in VCA for them.  I would think assuring their descendants along with every other citizen has the right to run for office without kowtowing to a major party should count for something.
  
David Jahn
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« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008, 07:35:36 am »

Perhaps there should be no public funding at all, ONE set of rules for getting on the ballot, and ONE deadline to do so.

The VCA was designed to touch one narrow topic...ballot access for minor party and independent candidates.  The more topics we bring into it, the less likely it is to be considered or that it will die in endless committee debates.

The thought was to address ballot access first, then address other issues.  Also, don't forget we are working with a coalition of all of the independent political groups in the state which includes socialists.  There are probably only a couple of those groups who see publicly funded primaries as a problem.

It was decided early on to focus on the one topic the coalition could agree on.

David Jahn
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 09:52:34 pm »

Sadly, most people probably won't immediately see the positive side of the "free and equal" part of elections. Excuse my cynicism, but they might actually look at it as multiple choice test with more choices to make the selection harder. In those instances, non-D+R promoters of the legislation need another angle to push it to the public. How about this....

With a third candidate for governor a simple debate might see a topic addressed that would never be asked by two candidates representing the incumbent parties in the incumbent legislature.  A third candidate for a statewide office would help to force the D+R candidates to discuss things that they BOTH don't want to discuss. That alone makes the VCA, and balloted third candidates, important for the people of Pennsylvania.

Mark
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 02:53:48 am »

Quote
We met with the government committee and spoke with many of our reps.  It seems to me that many of them are small minded people of limited intelligence.

and

Quote
I would think assuring their descendants along with every other citizen has the right to run for office without kowtowing to a major party should count for something.

It seems we are expecting small minded people of limited intelligence to grasp the concepts of Liberty and free elections. While we can expect that, it may not be the case. My state rep specifically said he would not support legislation that means he would need signatures when we wouldn't, but he won't be in office much longer. I will bet you there are more like him than like those who will sponsor the VCA in the General Assembly, however.

If it can be introduced that's fine. It will be subject to the sausage grinder that is the legislative process, so there will be plenty of opportunity for amendment. All I'm saying is we should improve the likelihood of its introduction, and suggested a way to do so.

Mik Robertson
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