Samantha1965
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« on: June 08, 2008, 07:42:26 am » |
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I have various associations with people in the GLBT community. A major concern to Transgender people is legal status of ones gender. When applying for a job if an individual looks like a woman or a man but their legal documents describe them otherwise it causes additional problems for the Transgender person. New York state not long ago made it easier to change legal status from female to male, or male to female. What is the Libertarian party's position in Pennsylvania on this issue?
Regards,
Samantha
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mjr91
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« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 12:32:02 pm » |
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Samantha --
I don't know that the LPPA has a position on this. But as a lawyer and LGBT activist, I think the only position that allows for real civil freedom is that government paperwork is not worth what it's printed on.
The law usually allows post-op TS persons to change their birth certificates according to their reassitgnment. Ideally, there should be no law regulating gender -- nor, on the other hand, any employer who wouldn't choose the best qualified person for a job regardless of their appearance.
By and large people should be considered to be whatever gender they say they are. As far as something like marriage goes, if this were handled by contract rather than by the government, and we didn't have to deal with intrrusive legislation like DOMA, gender would be irrelevant in marriage formation anyway. As far as work goes, I am curious as to where gender is relevant -- people are able to do a job or they are not.
From a legal perspective, there are possibly some (very few) reasons why some (very few imho) legal documents should have current actual gender, rather than appearance, on them -- if gender should be relevant in the first place. I'd be interested in seeing people's political feelings on gender assignment on legal documents.
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"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves"
-- Thomas Jefferson
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Samantha1965
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« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 12:55:04 pm » |
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Samantha --
I don't know that the LPPA has a position on this. But as a lawyer and LGBT activist, I think the only position that allows for real civil freedom is that government paperwork is not worth what it's printed on.
The law usually allows post-op TS persons to change their birth certificates according to their reassitgnment. Ideally, there should be no law regulating gender -- nor, on the other hand, any employer who wouldn't choose the best qualified person for a job regardless of their appearance.
By and large people should be considered to be whatever gender they say they are. As far as something like marriage goes, if this were handled by contract rather than by the government, and we didn't have to deal with intrrusive legislation like DOMA, gender would be irrelevant in marriage formation anyway. As far as work goes, I am curious as to where gender is relevant -- people are able to do a job or they are not.
From a legal perspective, there are possibly some (very few) reasons why some (very few imho) legal documents should have current actual gender, rather than appearance, on them -- if gender should be relevant in the first place. I'd be interested in seeing people's political feelings on gender assignment on legal documents.
Well it is relevant when you appear one way and the police officer reads something different on your drivers license. In NY now you are only required to live as the gender I believe for a year, regardless of surgury and can have your documents changed. It is of course considered fraud if you check off the box opposite of your birth certificate on legal documents. An incredibly large amount of human paper work requires checking a box for gender. Samantha |
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bergie72
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 03:03:03 pm » |
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I know this is kind of off-topic, but I wanted to say that I am THRILLED to see other people either from or supportive of the LGBT community posting in here! Have either of you heard of Outright Libertarians? ( http://www.outrightusa.org/) They are, from their website, "[A]n association of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and other self-identified "queer" (LGBTQ) Libertarian Party activists and supporters." I recently found out about them, and may soon be making a contribution. Thanks! |
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Samantha1965
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« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 08:17:00 pm » |
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Have either of you heard of Outright Libertarians? ( http://www.outrightusa.org/) They are, from their website, "[A]n association of lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and other self-identified "queer" (LGBTQ) Libertarian Party activists and supporters." I recently found out about them, and may soon be making a contribution. Thanks! Looks to me to be like most other GLBT organizations, not a darn thing about gender issues. |
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LastManOut
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 09:20:59 am » |
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How does one's sex (not gender  ) or sex acts become a matter of law? Why should one group have special privileges/protections under the U.S. Constitution? A best this would be a State matter, best determined locally, and with a good dictionary. Citizens of the States of America united are recognized as having the right to "..Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.". If one's choice of lifestyle is their "pursuit of Happiness" go for it, as long as it does no harm to the State or it's citizens (especially the children). As a "lesbian trapped in a man's body"  , I deserve no special treatment, nor do I deserve to have to endure public display of any sex acts or blatant nudity. That's my personal "line in the sand", from a constitutional stance, it is not the business of gov'mint to legislate ADULT'S in their bedrooms. P.S. My attempt here is not to poke-the-hornet's-nest, but to possibly understand the anger and the militancy of that visible part of the homosexual community. |
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JohnKOTR
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« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 07:04:57 am » |
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I honestly don't care what a person's gender is listed as. Gender is listed for visual identification purposes, for the most part, and if trans-gender folks want to be listed as their desired sex, then so be it. I don't care.
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LastManOut
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 07:25:00 am » |
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My daughter was living on her college campus with a guy that choose to dress as a woman, and use the Ladies Room, toilets. Is he having an identity crisis or is this just a good way to sneak a perverted peek without a "potty-cam"? I'll repeat from my previous post: If one's choice of lifestyle is their "pursuit of Happiness" go for it, as long as it does no harm to the State or it's citizens (especially the children). Sorry but, if this guy has a problem with who he is, he may just need to seek counseling, just as anyone else who is not happy with who they are. I can wish all day long I was Stephen Segal, even cut my hair and dress like him, but I'm still an overweight middle-aged white guy. |
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Samantha1965
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 08:42:53 pm » |
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My daughter was living on her college campus with a guy that choose to dress as a woman, and use the Ladies Room, toilets. Is he having an identity crisis or is this just a good way to sneak a perverted peek without a "potty-cam"? I'll repeat from my previous post: If one's choice of lifestyle is their "pursuit of Happiness" go for it, as long as it does no harm to the State or it's citizens (especially the children). Sorry but, if this guy has a problem with who he is, he may just need to seek counseling, just as anyone else who is not happy with who they are. I can wish all day long I was Stephen Segal, even cut my hair and dress like him, but I'm still an overweight middle-aged white guy. Last Man Out, I guess I did not understand the question. Not knowing anything about the person you describe I can only guess and make assumptions. If she is indeed a transgender person, then it is not some pervert or someone having an identity crisis. They may have been born with the plumbing associated with a guy, but their personality and world view is that of a gal. It is not something that counseling will talk them out of. If the person thinks they are Marilyn Monroe or Hillary Clinton or some other specific person then what you say can be true, that they have a problem. If the person truly feels them self to be a gender female, I might suggest that those who do not choose to treat her that way are the one's with a problem. Counselors these days help people to deal with their gender and the society around them. If there plumbing is an issue enough, the person may choose plastic surgery to appear more feminine. It is not a question of wanting to be someone else, it is a question of knowing who you are and wanting the society around you to accept you. They are happy with who they are, problems in life arise when others are not happy with who they are. The question I would have is why do you seem to have a problem with this person and think that they somehow need to be "cured"? Based on Libertarian principals they seem to be harming no one, so where is the problem? If a person chooses to live as a woman, I say let them have their F on the drivers license. If you thought you were Steven Segal and lived your life harming no one, I wouldn't give you any problems. Peace and Love, Samantha |
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LastManOut
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 08:21:16 pm » |
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The harm done in this instance is the fear and inappropriateness of a male (plumbing, birth certificate) entering a Ladies room with a bunch of college-aged girls.
Is this guy having an identity crisis, pulling a gag, have a mental disorder. One can not tell from looking at him. I mean cheeze, for a man to wander around in public dressed as a hooker (not Scarlet O'Hara by any stretch of fashion) would be an obvious sign of a mental dysfunction. Again, do as you wish in your own home. Defecating is a "natural act", but you wouldn't want to see me squatting off the curb would you?
Societal norms need to be adhered to, if only to maintain a polite society. Wouldn't you agree?
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Samantha1965
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 09:03:14 pm » |
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Lastmanout,
As I said before you are asking me to guess and assume. Knowing nothing about the individual in question I find it difficult to answer your concerns. The simplest thing would be to ask that person in specific in a none confrontational way.
No I do not see a problem with Female to Male transgender people using the mens room or Male to Female transgender people using the Ladies room. This may happen more often than you realize. They use the facilities, wash their hands and leave. It's not like most people are checking in stalls or loitering.
I will say that it is unlikely that the person is in anyway dangerous, but I can't guarantee that someone looking completely normal by your standards would not murder you in the men's room.
If the person looks a bit scary and threatening maybe they need some lessons in how to blend in and not attract attention. Maybe the person is a deranged nut, I do not know. Most transgender people I know just want to live normal lives without being harassed.
Peace and Love,
Samantha
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bdively
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 10:22:25 pm » |
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Samantha, why are not running for office?
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Samantha1965
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2008, 06:13:49 am » |
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Bd,
Simply put, I would not want anyone ripping through my personal life and turning it into a media circus. I'm an honest person, I very much think that Americans want to be lied to.
Samantha
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bdively
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2008, 07:46:21 am » |
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Lower level offices you need not worry about that. I ran for state house and other than having my petitions challenged in court it was a snap and actually fun.
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JohnKOTR
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2008, 10:55:49 am » |
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Yeah, unless you're running for major offices, you're not going to have to go through the media blitz. I currently have no desire to ever serve in any office beyond the state level, or even as Governor. When I run for office, I mean to serve the people of Pennsylvania. I couldn't see myself in waders big enough to step in the BS in Washington and come out clean. Of course, things change. I might too.
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