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Author Topic: Biblical underpinnings of libertarianism  (Read 3448 times)
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2008, 02:25:21 pm »

The real solution is to abolish the notion of "public property" altogether.  If the property had real human beings who owned it, then they can do what they want with it.  But then, I'm one of those wierdos who longs for the day when we can cancel government altogether due to lack of interest.

Well, it's impossible to abolish a notion (defined as idea or concept). And as long as we have a government that has a monopoly on the initiation of force, it will need to posses some property in order to carry out it's mission. That's inescapable.

An anarchist vs limited government debate would probably be a little too off-topic for this thread. Grin
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Mik
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2008, 11:28:04 pm »

Is there any evidence that God is an anarchist?

Mik Robertson
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caomhin10p
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« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2008, 12:41:14 am »

I'm pretty sure God isn't an anarchist.  It is extremely difficult to live your live in accordance with all the morals that we are supposed to uphold.  Only one person ever did.  God is all forgiving so long as you recognize and repent for the error of your ways because he truly does love us.  I think we forget that part about God in our lives and how we treat others.  I know I do.  The Golden Rule should guide us and we should respect others and care for them regardless of how they live their lives, seeking only to help them become better people, and pray to God they can do the same for us.  I don't know if that makes this a libertarian value issues though.  Drugs are not conductive toward loving oneself and others.  But then politics need not be infused with religion and vise versa.  Jesus was constantly around prostiutites, the destitute, and the outcasts of society and was scorned for it.  He was helping everyone he could, as should we.  I guess that makes a case for private charity more so than anything else.  The thing is, we need to have deep personal religious convictions and we shouldn't be afraid to let morals guide us in our decisions in order to make sure we are the doing the right thing, but we don't look to forceful make someone see us eye to eye in terms of religion.
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2008, 07:38:32 am »

Is there any evidence that God is an anarchist?

Good question. Based on how little he participates in this world I would say he is undoubtedly an anarchist!  Wink
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klapton
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2008, 07:41:15 am »

Is there any evidence that God is an anarchist?

Good question. Based on how little he participates in this world I would say he is undoubtedly an anarchist!  Wink

Leaving the Bible aside for a moment (which, as i stated above clearly shows God to be an absolute monarch) I'd say that God has an awful lot of laws in his universe.  All that physics stuff, etc.
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georgedonnelly
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2008, 07:53:02 am »

Leaving the Bible aside for a moment (which, as i stated above clearly shows God to be an absolute monarch) I'd say that God has an awful lot of laws in his universe.  All that physics stuff, etc.

klapton, may I respectfully request that you read some of Ayn Rand's philosophy? Not the fiction, but the philosophy.

Sorry but I just can't cope with a strict biblical or religious outlook on the universe.  Grin
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klapton
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2008, 09:37:37 am »

Leaving the Bible aside for a moment (which, as i stated above clearly shows God to be an absolute monarch) I'd say that God has an awful lot of laws in his universe.  All that physics stuff, etc.

klapton, may I respectfully request that you read some of Ayn Rand's philosophy? Not the fiction, but the philosophy.

Sorry but I just can't cope with a strict biblical or religious outlook on the universe.  Grin

God is whatever you imagine him to be.  Or perhaps nothing at all.  The title of the thread is "Biblical underpinnings of libertarianism" so I put my 2 cents in on what the Bible says about god.  As for Ayn Rand's ideas about god...  well, hers are just as good as anyone else's, and I care about hers about as much.

Perhaps I should bow out of this thread, simply because I'm not really taking it very seriously.
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Mik
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« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2008, 02:21:55 am »

I believe one issue that really opens this up to interpretation is that God really doesn't spend very much time writing things down. Pretty much everything we know is what someone else has written about God. 

As far as I know, and I may be wrong, the only thing written with the finger of God was the commandments, and I think the number of them vary depending on the section of whose different writing one reads. The problem is Moses came down from the mountain, got upset and destroyed them because people were dancing around a golden calf or some such thing. So he had to go back up and ask God to re-write the commandments and oddly, the first one in the re-write was about having other Gods before the God of Abraham. Not that there couldn't be other Gods, just none before that One.

Of course there can be libertarian underpinnings taken from the Bible, just as there can be from Judaism, Hinduism, even Islam (see the Minaret of Freedom Institute http://www.minaret.org/). I don't mean to discourage any effort to identify such libertarian Biblical quotations. I think it is more important, however, that the founders of American government were able to separate, at least in theory, religion from government than it is that some if not all were Christian. When it comes to identifying the role of government, I prefer Locke and Jefferson to Paul and Moses.

Mik Robertson
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mjr91
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« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2008, 01:16:53 pm »

Mik, I think you are right here, particularly when we note that Jefferson himself drafted one of the first religious toleration documents in America's early governance.  Our founding fathers, whatever their beliefs -- and those beliefs varied fairly widely -- definitely saw the legal underpinnings of this country as separate from the religious ones. 

One of the most notable things about the Bible is the ability everyone has to find "proof" for whatever theory they have.  God might be an absolute monarch, as in the psalms, or a libertarian, or a legislator.  In Judaism, the most devout find 613 absolute commandments by God in Hebrew scripture.  Although, admittedly, that's only an inconsequential fraction of the absolute laws we are required to follow in this country.
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"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of society but the people themselves"

-- Thomas Jefferson
Mik
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« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2008, 11:26:40 pm »

If we take the 613 commandments and compare that to current legislation, or even just to the number of mandates placed on the public school system in Pennsylvania, I believe this is very strong evidence that God is indeed a Libertarian.

OK Samantha, I'm on board! Now let's go after the evangelicals!

Mik
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Mik
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« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2008, 09:30:30 pm »

Those darn evangelicals are tougher to convert than I figured.

It seems some of them are Ron Paul supporters.

Mik
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