The Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania - Forum

I was not passionate about any political issue until my first-year criminal law course several years ago.  Prior to that time, I identified with the Democratic party as my parents did.  While studying criminal law, I could not reconcile the imposition of criminal penalties with the consenting behavior of adults as a matter of principle and became a libertarian.  There is no greater impediment to the advancement of poor people in America than the illegalization of drugs.  There is a clear line between the government's protecting our rights through criminal justice and its imposition of arbitrary moralism when it comes to drugs and prostitution.  The war on drugs has a continuing degrading effect on our respect for the rule of law and this injustice must cease.

I understand that drug penalties are disproportionate to the actual offense.  Since the drugs are used pretty commonly, anyway, I don't see how allowing people to be less ashamed of their use can be a bad thing.

But, there are definite drawbacks to drugs and questions surrounding the issue of legalization.  Would legalization cut back the prices and, therewith, the associated crime?  Who would take care of addicts who can't hold a job?  Does the American public have the stomach to watch addicts waste away?

I'm assuming you're still allowing the government to mandate that the operators of motor vehicles must be "sober" while driving, aren't you?  Or doctors?  Should consumers decide for themselves that they'll only go to hospitals that dissallow their surgeons to use drugs?  Will you allow hospitals to regulate their surgeons' lives in that manner?

Recrational drug use is harmless, sure, providing that you have the money to afford your drugs and use them in a responsible manner.  But there are hairy issues that stem from missuse of drugs, which is to be expected, considering almost all (if not all) of recreational drugs are addictive.

>> Would legalization cut back the prices and, therewith, the associated crime?

I would think that the results would be similar to what happened after alcohol prohibition was repealed - the prices will come down and the associated crime and corruption will decrease.

>> Who would take care of addicts who can't hold a job?  

Private charities and/or whoever is doing this now. I suppose at the margin post-legalization there might be more addicts than there are now. However - in certain respects it will be easier to be an addict and presumably come forward and get treatment. The way I understand current laws if you are an addict you are also a criminal, since possession is a crime.

BTW, although there may be more addicts, legalizing drugs will result in fewer people in jail - so net net more people will be able to hold jobs once the jails are emptied of non-violent drug offenders.

>> I'm assuming you're still allowing the government to mandate that the operators of motor vehicles must be "sober" while driving, aren't you? Or doctors?

If you drive impaired and hurt or kill someone you should be held responsible for your actions.  Impairment need not result solely from consuming alcohol - I've seen idiots dialing thier cell phones, applying lipstick, reading, etc. at insane rates of speed, and IMHO if those actions cause an accident that harms someone then that behavior should  be punished. (Some people exist in a permanent state of impairment, sad to say.)

However, punishing someone who after they have done something harmful is not the same as letting the state and the MADD lobby define "sobriety" and mandating that people who drive with certain levels of chemicals in their blood are criminals.

Same goes for doctors, although since medicine is a market I think you would see ratings and accreditiation agencies emerge that would check the docs for drugs when the market demands it. Drug tests happen for Pro athletes without gov't mandates, so I imagine that for something more important like your physician concerns the demand will be there.

>> Should consumers decide for themselves that they'll only go to hospitals that dissallow their surgeons to use drugs? Will you allow hospitals to regulate their surgeons' lives in that manner?

These are non-govermental issues of free association, so yes and yes. If a consumer or a doctor don't like a hospital's policies enough then either can freely choose to associate with some other hospital if the issue matters enough to them.

>> But there are hairy issues that stem from missuse of drugs, which is to be expected, considering almost all (if not all) of recreational drugs are addictive.

IMHO the single most impotant issue with illegal drugs is the corruption that results. Start with simple hypocrisy where ex-presidents "didn't inhale" while thousands are fined and jailed for using drugs. End with powerful criminal enterprises (financed by their oversized profits made becuase they are willing to flout the law) that endanger civil society in entire countries. Look at Colombia w/ the cocaine cartels to  Afghanistan where the Taliban currently engages in heroin cultivation and smuggling to finance their jihad.  

If there are a few more stoners in my neighborhood, I'll trade that for less people in jail and fewer cash crops for the Taliban to raise.

Info about me: I am Libertarian of view, Naval Officer by occupation, Aquarius in the stars, and feminine of physique.  

     I just returned from a 2-week detachment to Central America where my aircrew searched the ocean looking for and preventing easy travel by drug runners from Colombia.  I believe it is a good mission, because we make life harder for people who think that their careers are worth a few dead bodies along the way.
     I am also aware of how much $$ the government would save if these missions went away.  Wow!  It seems to me like a very good reason to let people grow (currently illegal) crops and let Marlboro market them here.  The money flow around mean circles in Colombia would slow down drastically, as would the death count.  Let's get those drugs on the shelves at the ABC store where they belong, and out of the questionable pockets of scary-looking fellows in the shadows.  
     I do not use illegal drugs at this time, mostly because due to my occupation I have vowed abstinence.   But I would SURE like to try some fun, well-marketed and hygenic products in the safety of my own home and with a citizen's sense of responsibility.    

Thanks for the forum!

I'm sorry you had to risk your life for such a failed mission. I hope they don't ask you to poison the fields of peasant farmers next.

Here's a good essay on the topic: 25-Year 'War on Drugs' Fails on the Streets (http://www.lewrockwell.com/ips/lobe163.html)

Jim

How would it be different from people addicted to alcohol? There are community support programs along with faith-based programs to help those addicted. The only difference now is that alcohol is legal and drugs are illegal. The results would be the same.

Just my $0.02.